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Post by Taliesin on May 12, 2014 19:53:56 GMT -6
Just like it says on the tin. Was it a great film, or was it really not that great?
Personally, I was disappointed by it. Now, don't get me wrong. I love Guillermo Del Toro. He's a fantastic director, and he has a unique vision that infuses everything he commits to screen. Any new film by him is an event for me, and I always do everything I can to catch it at the cinema to get the full, unadulterated experience. To date, Pan's Labyrinth would have to be my favourite of all he's done.
Okay, so what's wrong with Pacific Rim (in my opinion)? Well, firstly, let me just say that I loved the giant robots and beasties, and when they're on the screen the movie shines. However, I don't think it needed more scenes of robot on beastie action. I think they got the amount of action scenes just right. It's all the stuff between those that let the movie down, specifically the character development - or rather, the distinct lack of it.
Every character in Pacific Rim comes across as an archetype and nothing more. I read somewhere that this was Guillermo's specific aim when he directed the film. However, it's not a device that works for me. I like to invest in the characters in a film like this because relatable characters are what grounds it when you have so much unbelievable spectacle going on. I want to care about what happens to them, and to feel it when someone dies or someone succeeds. It's part of why I go to see films. They should have stories that emotionally enrich you in some way, and characters really help a lot towards that aim.
So, okay, on with the characters themselves.
You have Raleigh Becket, the ex-military guy whose partner got killed, so he quits, only to be yanked out of retirement by extraordinary circumstances. Nothing wrong with this archetype, but Guillermo and the actor collectively do nothing to make the character at all relatable. He is a bland, stock standard character that... well, that's just plonked there and you're expected to like him instantly.
You have Chuck Hansen, the military young blood who disrespects Becket and dismisses him as a failure and a has been, so they come to blows, and then he's saved by him, and then all's hunky dory between them from that point on. Firstly, his "Australian" accent makes me effing cringe every time. It makes all Australians sound like idiots with wooden planks for brains. Again, they just plonk this character there. No attempt at nuance. No nothing. Just a whole lot of chewing the scenery which is just embarrassing to watch.
You have Mako Mori, the inexperienced rookie who is a natural when it comes to piloting the robots, so that marks her as the best person for the job - if only she can deal with those pesky emotional problems. Guillermo at least makes an effort here by giving her a back story that's not only somewhat compelling but also has some influence on how the rest of the story unfolds. However, Rinko Kikuchi who plays this character is still criminally underutilised as far as I'm concerned.
Then you have the grizzled old warhorse that is Raleigh's commanding officer. Stacker Pentecost is no different to every other commanding officer you've ever seen in films, and therefore completely unengaging. He exists merely to recruit reluctant heroes, make supposedly "rousing" speeches, give lots of exposition, advance Mako's back story, and to sacrifice himself at the end. At no point do I get the sense of a living, breathing human being under all that artifice.
Oh, and the "wacky" scientists. Yeah. Okay then. Enough said.
Every character in Pacific Rim is dull beyond words. They are literally no more than coat hangers to drape the plot on. And you can guess everything that is going to happen with these characters within minutes of them appearing on screen. I understand that this is meant to be a big, Hollywood event and not War and Peace, but that is no excuse for phoning it in when it comes to the characters. I'm sorry, but Guillermo is better than this. He really is. This film just let me down in that department which is why I was unable to buy into the emotional stakes of the bigger set pieces (as prettily done as they were).
So, yeah, it looked terrific, but the film had a gaping character-shaped hollow.
What do you guys think? Agree? Disagree? I'd love to know.
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Post by TAZ on May 12, 2014 20:21:51 GMT -6
i am not going into near as much detail as you did. i enjoyed it, but it wasn't "Great"
characters
i didnt have a major problem with this, i think sometimes directors/writers overthink this in movies. it's only 2 hrs of my life, and i won't remember it in a yr
that guy is a dick, plain and simple. were he in my list of contacts and attempted to do the "you're too old to be a good soldier" i'd have snapped his neck
this charater seemed to be lacking. i didnt really empathise at all.
see i did engage with him, he's one of only 2 who survived a 1 man link, he thinks of Mako as a daughter, and looks out for his crew. he's the veteran commander who's budget has been cut.
really? i loved the idiot that linked with the monster lol
fair point. it was an old fashioned action i guess. if you rewatch any Dolph Lundgren (i feel i mispelled that) you'll see something very similar
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Post by sjfaerlind on May 12, 2014 20:32:07 GMT -6
For pure entertainment value I gave this film an A. I wasn't expecting anything more than mindless entertainment from it so the lack of characterization didn't bother me. I find that I have to be in the right mood to watch a film like this. This is the kind of thing I watch when I can't be bothered to rub two neurons together...lol.
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Post by TAZ on May 12, 2014 20:35:39 GMT -6
For pure entertainment value I gave this film an A. I wasn't expecting anything more than mindless entertainment from it so the lack of characterization didn't bother me. I find that I have to be in the right mood to watch a film like this. This is the kind of thing I watch when I can't be bothered to rub two neurons together...lol. exactly, it's an action. i think sometimes we forget that dumb males, such as myself (i regard Tal as a smart male), like to just sit back sometimes and watch **** get blown up. no thinking, no worrying about whether it works, just pure aggression. thats how Stallone got his go. (you don't really think you can fire an M-60 from the hip with the shoulder strap on and hit anything right?)
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Post by Cascador on May 12, 2014 20:39:51 GMT -6
My post will contain spoilers for people who haven't seen the film, so be warned!
First of all let me just start with the three main characters. You have Raleigh, who didn't just lose his partner. He lost his brother which brings a lot more emotional weight to his character. Losing his brother was like losing a part of himself. It's interesting how they are compatible to operate Gypsy Danger, because they are brothers. When operating the Jaegers they share their memories, their secrets, which again brings them closer together. That is also what makes him compatible with Mako. Because Mako also lost her family, her parents. They share a burden which just adds to the relationship of these characters. Which wasn't exaggerated, made corny, but still special imo. You know they feel something for each other, but they was done in a subtle way to not lose focus of the matter at hand. Raleigh also undergoes the classic hero's journey. The fall, the belly of the whale, the enlightenment, the return.
Mako. You summed her up well. But there's a lot more symbolism involved which I liked about this film. Pacific Rim was one modern film that really adapted mythology well just like Star Wars did. The red shoe she holds with her represents her broken heart. (Which is why the shoe was red) When Pentecost gives it back he offers her a chance to mend her heart. I already explained what is so special about her relationship with Raleigh.
Pentecost is the father/mentor figure. He is a father figure to both Raleigh and Mako, but mainly to Mako as he raised her as his own daughter. Again that just adds more to their relationship. The fact you knew he had a bad condition and I knew he was going to die, because of classic mythology where the old generation makes place for the young. It's also because of really great acting on Idris Elba's behalf that this character was so interesting.
Another thing I'll add is the wall, which relates to Raleigh's character. The wall, just as the one in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' symbolizes the suppression of something bad, something evil, the suppression of memories. It symbolizes how Raleigh tries to suppress his memories of his brother's death, rather than face the problem. This relates to stories such as Bluebeard, where they keys to the room in question, also symbolize the suppression of memories, because once Bluebeard's wife opens that door, she tries to suppress everything she saw in that room.
Cocerning the Australian team. Well they were extra's imo. But I think it was still an interesting father-son relationship and to see the son sacrifice himself gave him his own hero's journey because in the beginning he acts immature, but at the end he rises from boy to man. I found it an emotional scene to watch both him and Pentacost die.
The wacky scientisst were comedy relief and it worked out fine imo. It was maybe stereotypical, but seen as both scientist showed they actually had some guts show they were more than that. They formed a nice balance as one was the creative side and one the mathematical side. Which brings me to the Jaeger's themselves.
The compatibility in the cockpit was interesting because it added to the characters, but also shows how this film focuses on the human psyche, because the cockpit essentially works as a human brain, which is why you had two pilots. It was interesting how Mako actually worked at the creative side, while Raleigh stood at the mathematical side. It was a very interesting and unique concept.
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Post by Taliesin on May 12, 2014 20:45:02 GMT -6
For pure entertainment value I gave this film an A. I wasn't expecting anything more than mindless entertainment from it so the lack of characterization didn't bother me. I find that I have to be in the right mood to watch a film like this. This is the kind of thing I watch when I can't be bothered to rub two neurons together...lol. exactly, it's an action. i think sometimes we forget that dumb males, such as myself (i regard Tal as a smart male), like to just sit back sometimes and watch **** get blown up. no thinking, no worrying about whether it works, just pure aggression. thats how Stallone got his go. (you don't really think you can fire an M-60 from the hip with the shoulder strap on and hit anything right?) You and sjfaerlind make fair points here. I guess it all depends on what you're wanting from your cinema going experience, and we all do enjoy different movies for different reasons. We even enjoy the same films sometimes, but also for different reasons. Who's right and who's wrong? Nobody really. It's all subjective. Having said that, I just wish I hadn't been so disappointed by this film. I had expected something a little more than what I got, given that it was Guillermo Del Toro behind it. Even his other popcorn flicks Hellboy and Hellboy II: The Golden Army had a little more to them than just action. Ah well. Oh, and Cascador, your assessment there makes me want to like Pacific Rim more than I ever could. I'm glad it was very much to your liking.
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Post by Cascador on May 12, 2014 20:56:29 GMT -6
Oh yes, this films made me love Guillermo Del Toro. This was the re-telling of classic mythology in a modern cloak... Something only George Lucas has pulled off in a fantastic way imo. Guillermo Del Toro proved to me how good he actually is with this film and how well he understands mythology. That is why I felt it was such a shame his adaptation of the Hobbit wasn't filmed. I really think I would have loved those films if he had done it, but I have seen the first one and as expected it was a let down for me. I'm glad if others may have enjoyed it. But sorry, Peter Jackson doesn't understand mythology as Guillermo Del Toro does. My second favourite Del Toro film is probably Pan's Labyrinth. I like both Hellboy films, but they weren't as special as either Pacific Rim or Pan's Labyrinth, being such a fan of mythology.
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Post by Crouton on May 12, 2014 21:12:19 GMT -6
I recently bought this on blu-ray but haven't had a chance to watch it yet. I hope I can add my opinions to this thread very soon.
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Post by Cascador on May 12, 2014 21:19:30 GMT -6
I think you'll like it Crouton. This film has a strong female character. In the beginning she comes off as weak, but as the film progresses, you'll see she's not as weak as she appears. What I also liked about this film was the score, written by the same composer who does the score of the Game of Thrones tv series. It really engaged me, made me feel excited especially during the fights.
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Post by Crouton on May 13, 2014 18:04:46 GMT -6
I'm hoping I'll like it. The problem is I really want to watch it on my computer, because then I can use my headphones with Dolby 7.1 surround sound, which I think would be epic for a film like this. Far better than my TV's crappy built in speakers anyway. But the only good blu-ray player I can find online is $100 to download, and it's hard to pirate and crack.
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Post by Crouton on May 17, 2014 17:18:04 GMT -6
I watched this last night and loved it!
As far is if it's great or mediocre, well... you have to see it for what it is. This film is no Pan's Labyrinth, that's for sure, but it was never supposed to be. Del Toro made exactly what he wanted. I drew comparisons from this movie to the Transformers due to well... the giant robots fighting things. This movie was much better in every way than those films though. Even the fight scenes were better as you could actually follow the action, where as Transformers fight scenes are so quick and badly cut that you always miss heaps and it's hard to make sense of it.
The thing I didn't like was the two scientist characters, as well as Hannibal Chow. Their type of "wacky" humour felt like the awful, cheesy and forced humour that you do see in the Transformers films. I felt like it just wasn't needed and the film would have been better without it.
Aside from those scientists though I actually like all the other characters and their stories. There was enough depth to them to carry the film along, and in a film like this you don't really need more because it's about the Kaiju. And Cascador was indeed correct, I did like Mako quite a lot, she was a highlight for me.
I also loved the duel connection thing, I didn't know about that and it was a nice surprise. I love that they have to connect to each others minds and control the robots together.
One thing that did bother me though, aside from the scientists was that at the start of the film they were faced with a wall of TV's with important-looking people saying jaegers are no longer working and they are to shut down and not use them anymore. Then we didn't hear from them or see them again. I was thinking there would be more backlash from those people in the film, like, more of them saying not to use the jaegers or something like that. But they just vanished and weren't seen again.
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Post by Shogun on May 17, 2014 19:56:41 GMT -6
Personally I didn't care for Pacific Rim. Granted, all I wanted was robots vs monsters and it had that, but the human element seemed lacking. You can play apologetics for that all day, but in the end it was a bad call to intentionally make them hokey. I get that he wanted to pay homage to the brainless actioners of yesteryear, but the execution just didn't do it for me. The Expendables is a great example of doing this type of thing right. The acting was just as bad in those films, but at least Stallone and co seemed sincere. The cast of Pacific Rim just felt like they were trying to hard to make you realize they were lampooning the old school actioners. We got that almost immediately, pretending to take it seriously would have been a plus in my book(Idris managed this, but he couldn't carry the whole film).
As far as the cooky scientists, they were actually the high point of the movie in my opinion.
I feel like the movie would have also benefited greatly from more length(I say this about movies all the time now, and it feels weird, but there's a lot of world building that they really didn't do a great job of doing simply because they didn't have time to). They could have used this to emphasize things like the toxicity of kaiju blood(the biggest criticism in terms of narrative you'll see in my experience is about them not using the sword sooner, this comes up because everyone forgot about the monster blood causing massive environmental damage because it was only really mentioned once at the very beginning of the movie). This could have also helped to explain why the wall building had suddenly seemed like a better call than the Jaegers and what happened to the politicians in the aftermath and so on.
One thing that did make me happy about this movie aside from the monster fights: noting the similarities story wise between this movie and Top Gun.
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Post by Crouton on May 18, 2014 23:44:16 GMT -6
Haha, I guess it's different for everyone, I couldn't stand any scene with those scientists in it.
One thing that I did like was that there wasn't really a romance between the two leads. Almost every big action film like this has some sort of romance which usually feels forced. Even at the end of this one when the two mains resurfaced from the ocean there was a good chance for a big cheesy kiss scene but it didn't happen, they remained friends who just went through a hell of a lot together. I thought that was cool.
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Post by Taliesin on May 19, 2014 0:26:21 GMT -6
Haha, I guess it's different for everyone, I couldn't stand any scene with those scientists in it. One thing that I did like was that there wasn't really a romance between the two leads. Almost every big action film like this has some sort of romance which usually feels forced. Even at the end of this one when the two mains resurfaced from the ocean there was a good chance for a big cheesy kiss scene but it didn't happen, they remained friends who just went through a hell of a lot together. I thought that was cool. Agreed. They seem to make that mistake all the time, so I'm glad that's one thing they avoided here. It really wouldn't have made sense for those two characters to be romantically involved anyway. They came across as more of a brotherly/sisterly kind of thing.
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Post by Crouton on May 19, 2014 0:31:07 GMT -6
I didn't even see it as brotherly/sister, but just more of good mates. And I like that. There aren't enough male and female relationships that are just friends, with no romantic interest in each other in TV and films. I always feel like it's one of the biggest things lacking that I could relate to. A lot of my closest friends are guys, and it's the same for heaps of other people I know. Close friends.
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