Elliot Rodger

[Crouton]

We've all heard about him, he's the kid who killed all those people on a shooting rampage in the US because he was declined by women. Many people are seeing this as an act of male entitlement and have come down hard on the MRA (Men's Right's Movement). But the part that shocked me the most is that one month before the attack people were suspicious of him and the police were called to his house. At this time his room was full of semi-automatic weapons and well as a detailed plan of attack. But apparently he convinced the police it was a misunderstanding and they left. If they had JUST searched his room that day all those people could still be alive. How do police fuck up that badly? 

What are your thoughts on this now famous case? 

[Taliesin]

Unfortunately, I think we're all living in a world where the divide between women and men may become more pronounced. Guys like that don't get born this way. They have hopes and dreams of falling in love, just like the next person. Then for whatever reason they find they cannot date the opposite sex - let alone make friends with them - and become withdrawn and isolated. It's in those kinds of conditions that people like Elliot Rodger make themselves into monsters. They feel disempowered, so they try to get it back in the worst possible way.

I would have felt sorry for him if he'd not said and done the things that he had. No one likes to be rejected. I get that. I've been there too. But to then demonise women and then go out and take their lives? No. You lost me there, buddy.

It beggars belief that the authorities did not follow up on his family's warnings before it was too late.

[Crouton]

Look at this, someone actually made an FB page for him.



It's been taken down now thankfully, but it's just so shocking that someone would glorify his actions. Apparently a women-hating online forum he was a part of is also down right now.

I don't think you should feel sorry for him at all, not even a glimmer of it. So he gets rejected? Who cares? He was only 22, everyone gets rejected. I didn't have my first girlfriend and didn't' really start dating until I was 22 myself. He was still young. It's not like he had a whole life of being rejected. He felt like he was entitled to women which is the biggest problem here.

[Taliesin]

Anybody who makes a Facebook page like that should have all their social networking privileges revoked. Seriously. What an idiot.

Wanting a relationship isn't the same thing as feeling entitled to women. Like I say, I feel like he made himself that way. He got rejected, couldn't handle the rejection (let's face it, none of us handle it well), and then decided that women as a species were the enemy. Seriously, he chose to warp himself into some sick kind of misogynistic "avenging angel" instead of picking himself up and trying again. The human mind can be a mysterious and disturbing place. I'm not so sure that I would want to have been in his. He must have harboured some pretty serious bitterness over his failed attempts at a relationship, and chose to use that to fuel what would become hatred.

The reason I put it in those terms is that the blame for this horrific act needs to lie squarely with him and nobody else. Not with the women who for whatever valid reasons rejected him. Not with his family who tried to warn the authorities. And not with the authorities who, yes, should have been all over this before it ended in tragedy. Also, I've been reading comments from people who blame it on mental illness. That's letting him off the hook as far as I'm concerned. The vast majority of people with mental illnesses do not enact violence on anybody of any kind. It was all him, and nothing else.

[Crouton]

I also feel like mental illness is going too easy on him. This is a case of extreme misogyny and it's as simple as that. And yes I agree we shouldn't blame those policemen and his parents either, even though the thought of the cops being so close to averting this disaster and failing is really upsetting. I would hate to be them right now, knowing how close they were to saving 7 peoples lives.

[Crouton]

Several hours after this attack a man in California open fired on three women who refused to have sex with him and his friend.

Here's the full story.

thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/05/26/3441640/california-man-allegedly-fired-at-girls-for-refusing-to-have-sex/

This is becoming a terrifying trend.

[Firiath]

This case shows how much is wrong in this society (and I'm not limiting this to the US). Associating a woman's right to choose whom to date, of with whom to have sex, with "feminazi ideology" is just a lame excuse for these guys' failures as functioning members of society.
So, if I asked a random guy on the street to have sex with me and he refused, is this because he's trying to prove his male dominance? It has to be! What a chauvinist pig! There's only one reasonable solution to this problem - shoot the guy!

What the hell. Seriously.

[Crouton]

Apparently one of the sites this guy hung out on called "Pick Up Artist Hate" has warned of more deaths.

Their quote: "more people will die unless you give men sexual options."

Here's the full story here: thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/05/26/3441585/anti-woman-site-predicts-more-deaths/

So yeah, good to know this anti-women site is saying more deaths will come

[Taliesin]

I think I may have to bow out of this conversation now. That stuff is kind of making me feel quite sick in the stomach. I can't believe there's this much hate out there, and it's depressing that there are guys that would reduce themselves to that.

[Firiath]

May 27, 2014 17:51:20 GMT -6 Crouton said:

Their quote: "more people will die unless you give men sexual options."

I actually know two great options: Masturbation, and/or dealing with it. It's that simple. There's so much more to life than sex, and it's incredibly sad not everyone realises this.
These people are sick, and so are pick up artists. "Artists."

[Crouton]

I love how they are acting like girls never get rejected. They do, girls get rejected every single day. Why do they think this is something that only happens to guys?

[raoh]

I have a bit to spill on this one concerning the mental illness aspect. I think people brushing off mental illness is kind of crooked because sure anybody can murder but to make it premeditated murder suicide could speak more to ongoing depression. This guy clearly had some psychological disorder.

The volatility he had from those disorders coupled with the MRA propaganda garbage is what enabled him I think. But I don't think human motivation for something this horrendous can ever be traced back to a single root to simplify humanity to push any agenda being mental health awareness or (while deserved) anti-MRA campaigns.

Listing all the factors I can figure it would be something like MRA propaganda, psychological disorders, a sense of relative deprivation, a sense of humiliation, media propagating virulent values for males and females, and a Stanley Milgram-esque pressure from his PUAhate community to vent all his bastardized grievances.

I saw Firi bring up masturbation. Masturbation is tricky because while it satisfies that urge in people it is also publicly seen as childish and infantile, what lesser people do who can't devote time to relationships or marriage. Lots of these privileged terrorists then get pent up with frustration for being seen that way and despite their safety they feel threatened and compelled to act out with aggression.

Last semester I had a class on that touched on relative deprivation and humiliation motivating aggression from upper class citizens. Ever notice how most terrorists are males of the dominant ethnicity? Given the theme too in his feeling of entitlement I think this is the closest we're going to get in cracking this nut.

[Crouton]

I don't think he was even mentally ill at all. I read online that he had been seeing a psychiatrist for years and was never actually diagnosed with any mental illness. He wasn't mentally ill he was just extremely racist and misogynistic.

I saw this thing online, and it was saying that if a black man killed 6 people the media would call it "a thug attack" and "gang crime".

If a Middle Eastern man did the same thing they would call it "a terrorist attack".

But when a young white boy does this every time it's blamed on 'mental illness'. I'm starting to wonder whether he really did have any mental illness at all or whether that's just what the American media want us to think.

[raoh]

There is certainly some bias in the system, I'm just saying that well adjusted people usually don't kill themselves. Tons of radical misogynists are on the internet, I think every person has the capacity to kill under the right circumstances, but it takes something extra to make it a crusade.

I don't want to diminish anything saying he was a hateful misogynist, I want to realize what events and aspects culminated to make him do what he did so we can know and prevent these things. Misogynistic motivations are neglected, but mental disorders are also commonly ignored and shamed here, also there is the whole trend of people feeling humiliated and acting out violently as a result.

As monstrous as his actions were we need to humanize these people so we can see them as complex humans rather than simple monsters.