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Post by SellennaeAlara on Jul 1, 2014 20:26:22 GMT -6
I don't know if I am going insane or if the world is. How is it that it has become acceptable to dress children and infants like grown women and call it 'cute'. I have seen it in a few places; five year old girls wearing booty cutting shorts up to their crotch, tank tops and mommy put make up on them. Little girls wearing short Minnie skirts showing off their under wear and wearing shirts that show their stomachs and deep V necks.
Any child put in a beauty pageant is dressed up, dolled up and lathered in make up till they look like some 20 year old! They wear more make up then most grown women in beauty pagents, wearing push up padded bra's for boobs they don't even have!
And every time I go to a public pool; nearly ever girl 13 and below is in a skimpy bikini! I am sorry; since when and why is it appropriate for anyone under the legal age of consent to walk around in something that covers less then their underwear? I see girls jsut starting to develop breast walking around in bikini's that leaves next to nothing to the imagination. I have seen infants in skimpy bikini's!
THEN; after we left them and HELP them dress this way. The world freaks out because there are more child molesters, rapist and teens having sex then before! We sexualize them and then ask why so many men are starting to look at them sexual when they are just kids!! If they are just kids; why are we dressing them like adults, why are we allowing them to be sexual?!!
How can we complain that men are checking out our 14 year old daughters; when we are the one who buys them sexual clothing in the first place and allows them to wear it??!! We let them dress sexually and then shame the world for seeing them sexually? How does that fix anything???
Now I am not saying that little girls should not be allowed to dress cute or grown up; but they do not have to dress in a manor that reveals their bodies to do so! Children should be modest, we should teach the values of modesty and not that taking off clothing is 'hot' or 'grown up'.
I am also not saying every girl is like this; but over half of them I see need to be dressed more! Most of all at public pools!
Am I crazy?
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Post by raoh on Jul 2, 2014 11:43:04 GMT -6
It is like women are turned into objects from a young age and expected to remain passive eye candy in our western society.
Oh but what civilized society would let that go by?
Huh, I wonder.
...
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Post by sjfaerlind on Jul 3, 2014 21:12:46 GMT -6
I guess it all depends on the way you look at it. I think the problem doesn't lie with the manner of dress but in how our society views sexuality and the rules surrounding it. I have no idea how clothing became a symbol of advertising for a sexual partner or why our society seems to think that people wearing certain types of clothes have waived their right to say "no" to sex. To me, the application of common sense is far more important: Children are not sex objects and should never be regarded as such. It simply doesn't matter what they are (or aren't) wearing. I honestly think that "dress codes" to enforce "decency" actually contribute to rape culture. By deeming certain types of clothing "indecent" as a society, we seem to assume that people who wear these clothes are also "indecent" and therefore are not worthy of our respect. If we don't respect them, why would we ever respect their decision to say no to sex? They must have had it coming if they dressed that way, right? Sorry, but I don't hold with that. I find it really sad that we actually have to protect our children from sickos who should know better by restricting the way they dress. That's the only fault I'd find in parents who allow their children to dress so-called "indecently". Those children are potentially in danger because our society thinks they must be advertising for a sexual partner if they're dressed that way. Personally, I think that's insane. I'll never forget my daughter coming home from school at age 5 and telling me that she couldn't wear her favourite tank top to school anymore. She wasn't allowed to because the shoulder straps apparently weren't wide enough. Give me a break! The kid was 5 years old and she sure wasn't advertising anything! She just liked the colour of the shirt.  |
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Post by raoh on Jul 3, 2014 21:38:42 GMT -6
I'm against shaming and for people wearing whatever they want but I'm not optimistic enough to think we've come close enough to shattering instilled aspects of social interaction tied to clothing that are present regardless.
This is like sending a rocket out, there are stages, as progressive as things have been getting changing things too fast will cause upsets or brew vitriolic dissenters.
There is already a deadly culture of male entitlement towards women that is deeply rooted in our media, our sciences, and faiths. For people that think real men get laid, men are inherently more sexually aggressive, or that women are subservient to men any other purpose for women is an afterthought.
That would be target #1 if I were leading the charge. Then again I only know about gender politics through osmosis so I'm probably screwing up fundamentally and am the devil. Listen to marginalized voices and whatnot, I'm a cis white male so take everything I say with a grain of salt as white as me.
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Post by sjfaerlind on Jul 4, 2014 7:01:11 GMT -6
I'm against shaming and for people wearing whatever they want but I'm not optimistic enough to think we've come close enough to shattering instilled aspects of social interaction tied to clothing that are present regardless. This is like sending a rocket out, there are stages, as progressive as things have been getting changing things too fast will cause upsets or brew vitriolic dissenters. There is already a deadly culture of male entitlement towards women that is deeply rooted in our media, our sciences, and faiths. For people that think real men get laid, men are inherently more sexually aggressive, or that women are subservient to men any other purpose for women is an afterthought. I agree that society is not anywhere near ready to allow people to dress however they want. I think that's the only reason parents should restrict the clothing their children wear. As I said before, children might be in danger if they are considered to be dressed "indecently". Even as an adult, I have to give the matter some consideration under certain circumstances and for the same reason. I'm not sure that the idea of male entitlement is wholly the problem anymore. Honestly, I think it's more of a symptom of a general lack of respect for individual rights and freedoms. That was really brought home to me reading a fight between a bunch of members on TFF about women raping men. One male member actually responded with "sometimes you just have to take it like a man." If men don't even think they have the right to refuse, it makes sense that they wouldn't think that women have that right either. Sometimes it's amazing what people's off-hand comments reveal about what they actually believe. Sometimes I don't think people even realize what beliefs they've absorbed from the world around them. |
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Post by raoh on Jul 4, 2014 12:08:17 GMT -6
All true, but I think male entitlement plays a part in gender roles. So we've got dependence/cultural attachment on gender roles that fortify gender roles and then kind of get extrapolated across other aspects of our culture. I think there is no contest, males benefit far more from gender roles even with their downsides.
Even as adolescents we're pressured into getting girlfriends, I think more of the issue suggestive kid clothing is kids all in the same age range. It is like a mock-reality were they are taught to objectify women for their features. Then when they are older it is just "normal" to do the same except they now have become stable parts of communities that all have a consensus.
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Post by SellennaeAlara on Jul 4, 2014 15:35:36 GMT -6
I am in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM saying the women do not have the right to say no.
I am saying that yes; in our society; the way we dress does say things. When we want our husbands or boyfriends to notices us; we do wear things with more sex apple; we dress sexy. We put on the little black dress or red dress; we put on makeup. When we want to attract male attention to find a boyfriend or dance partner; we dress sexier, we dress hotter. A girl wants to get the jocks attention;s he is going to dress with more sex apple to get it. To be the hot popular girl. Those are facts about our society and our culture.
I do NOT have a problem with young girls in bikini's; I have a problem with young girls in bikini's that show off their private parts. I have a problem with them wearing bikini's that cover less then their underwear.
Children should never be seen as sex objects; but when you let them walk around with 1/3 of their bodies covered; your almost asking for every perverted mind gutter to look at them. No 9 year old needs to have her soon to be boobs on display; no 14 year old needs to be showing off her coming in boobs and none of them need half their butts hanging out with a patch over their crouch.
I am NOTtalking about dress codes; but just basic modesty. Any girl going to school would be sent home if she wore her bra and panties into class; bra's and panties cover more then half of the bikini's I see them wearing at the pool.
That to me is backwards and wrong.
We do live in a society with perverts; with young males going threw puberty. Their eyes starting to wander, starting to look. More often then not we are giving them more to look at then they should have at a younger age.
Personally; I would like a world where we could walk around clothed or not; I think the human body is a beautiful and natural thing and that clothing is more of an accessory. The truth is we just do not live in a world where that is at all a remote possibility. In the world we live in; sex sells and there is no reason to put sex apple onto our children.
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Post by sjfaerlind on Jul 6, 2014 18:55:12 GMT -6
I think it's one of those darn circular arguments. We live in the world that is, not the one that we wish it would be. Yet the world won't change unless we challenge it.
I think it's great that we talk about all this stuff though. it gets people thinking about how they view things. Realizing what we unconsciously believe is the first step to changing the beliefs we no longer wish to have.
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Post by Liv the Librarian on Jul 12, 2014 2:47:26 GMT -6
Modesty is completely subjective. What one person views as modest, another could see as immodest.
I don't like bathing suits at all because I don't like showing any skin. I don't think it matters if little 5 year old girls are wearing bikinis. They have nothing to show and aren't going to be seen as sex objects.
Then again, I also don't think there is a problem with showing skin, and if people one day decided that nudity was the way to go, I'd be like, well, you do your thing, I'm fine in my clothes.
I think we should stop worrying about what men think and where their eyes go and more about what we, as women, are comfortable with. Personally, if I am wearing a more revealing top or dress, I pay no mind to what men are looking at. I have very few revealing clothes, but the ones I have, I really like (but hardly wear because, like I said, I prefer to keep my private bits private).
Children do NOT need to be shunned from sex. Children need to be educated about sex and what it means so that when they are teenagers and get the urge to have sex, they aren't confused and horrified at what their bodies are going (or the new things their minds are thinking). We don't live in a society of perverts; we live in a society where people who enjoy sex and rejoice in their sexuality are deemed as perverts. Sex and sexuality are wonderful things, and so is the human body. Demonizing these things is far more dangerous than embracing them.
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Post by SellennaeAlara on Jul 17, 2014 12:28:54 GMT -6
Children do NOT need to be shunned from sex. Children need to be educated about sex and what it means so that when they are teenagers and get the urge to have sex, they aren't confused and horrified at what their bodies are going (or the new things their minds are thinking). We don't live in a society of perverts; we live in a society where people who enjoy sex and rejoice in their sexuality are deemed as perverts. Sex and sexuality are wonderful things, and so is the human body. Demonizing these things is far more dangerous than embracing them. I am not talking about not teaching kids about sex or shunning sex or anything like that. We have more children being molested and reported now then ever before. Then we ask why men see them sexual. When we are letting ten year old's give or take a few years; dress in clothing that adult women wear to attract male attention. That is my issue. Trust me; I am the last person who will be sheltering my kids from sex and sex ed. But when we know there are men out there who will molest and rape a five, ten, twelve year old girl (and boys); why do we let them dress as adults who are TRYING to get checked out and noticed. |
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Post by Liv the Librarian on Jul 18, 2014 12:25:51 GMT -6
The men that will molest and rape little girls and boys will do that no matter how the little girls and boys are dressed. Clothing does not give someone a open invitation to rape or molest ANYONE no matter the age.
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Post by SellennaeAlara on Jul 18, 2014 21:37:32 GMT -6
I am not saying it gives them the right; but it does draw their attention more.
If a woman dress sexy; its because she wants to be seen sexy; she is seeking out male attention. Women do it all the time. I do not think it is appropriate to let children dress the same way and call it 'cute' or 'grown up'.
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Post by Liv the Librarian on Jul 20, 2014 16:00:21 GMT -6
You are very incorrect in saying that when a woman is dressing up "sexy" that it's for male attention. That's not even close to being accurate. When I have children, if I have girls, I will let them pick out whatever swimsuits they want and if they want a spaghetti strap bikini, that's what they'll get. I'm not letting society stop my children, or me, from enjoying life. No one, and I repeat, NO ONE, should have to alter their way of dress just because some rapist or child molester is out that. That's on them, not us, and nothing we do is going to stop that. You could dress your child in a burka or a hijab and they'd still be at risk of being raped, just like women.
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Post by SellennaeAlara on Jul 22, 2014 10:10:16 GMT -6
You are very incorrect in saying that when a woman is dressing up "sexy" that it's for male attention. That's not even close to being accurate. That is actually a direct quote from many female friends I have had over the years; not every single woman does. but many, many do. |
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Post by Liv the Librarian on Jul 22, 2014 11:35:10 GMT -6
Well, good for your female friends; that's their prerogative.
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